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Winston Smith
Winston Smith
14 Mar '21 05:48

I previously stated on this platform that I thought Martyn Iles was brilliant. I now need to revise that assessment. His analysis of the Harry & Meghan Oprah interview is shallow and trite, leans heavily on dogma and lacks insight. It seems like another example of right wing group think that is mired in the idea that rules and authority are inherently good. Watching this I feel glad that I was never indoctrinated by a rigid value system, as Martyn was. It has stunted his intellect.


https://youtu.be/YEB5Yr33AxU

The Truth of It | Harry, Meghan & Oprah | Canadian Pastor Jailed Over COVID | Banning Books | Ep. 64

ACL – Australian Christian Lobby

Join Martyn as he dives straight into the truth on Harry, Meghan & Oprah. Martyn also looks into the hard reality of the rights and wrongs of breaking the law as a Canadian pastor is jailed over COVID. He also looks into the truth about books being banned and what could possibly go wrong. ► To support a grassroots movement made up of over 175,000 individuals who seeking to bring a Christian influence to politics. click here: ►► Subscribe to watch more videos from Australian Christian Lobby here: ►►► If you want to be involved with other volunteers, click here: ►► ►► If you are interested in leadership development, click here: ►► ►►► If you want to pray with us, click here: For more information about Australian Christian Lobby visit: FOLLOW US ►► Instagram: ►► Facebook:


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TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
13 Apr '21 03:54

Lol - yes we should all be more like Philip. Sociopath with desires for the depopulation of mankind and systems in place to take advantage of the caring nature of men and women, whilst simultaneously using their generosity to do the opposite of their desires.

Did he complain about it with 'wokeness', no, he just got on with it Lol...

O
Oldavid
8 Apr '21 09:12

The way this fwarkn 'site is organised is utterly confounding! I got a message that there was a new comment but it was not revealed by "clicking on" the link provided.


Apparently I need to cruise through the whole 52 comments to guess which one it might have been,

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
8 Apr '21 13:16

99% of the time (I simply don't want to give an absolute guarantee haha) the notification will take you straight to the comment made.

It's possible a comment was made and then deleted.

Or it's also possible it's to do with a coding bug which Winston is has been excellent at fixing and maintaining so far.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
6 Apr '21 13:24

This is a test comment.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
22 Mar '21 05:45

Yes, but you didn't clarify your usage of the ambiguous word "pathetic".

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
16 Mar '21 02:57

Not sure if you want to hear another perspective on this, delving into the history of Meghan...

But here's one very small side, which isn't specific proof but just more questions:

https://rumble.com/vekqud-markle-calls-the-royals-…

Markle calls the Royals Racist

Markle calls the Royals Racist

Meghan Markle and Prince Harry were interviewed by Oprah Winfrey, whereupon she accused her husband’s family of racism. In fact-checking Markle on those claims, might other skeletons be turned up in t

Rumble
Winston Smith
Winston Smith
16 Mar '21 03:29

Thanks for sharing that. I did watch it. Before I say anything about it I'm really interested to know what you got from it. What insights did it provide? What facts were presented?

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
16 Mar '21 04:22

I don't feel it presented any relevant facts, only suspicions. And suspicions are not enough to go off of to determine a sound conclusion.

This could very well be a case of being able to tie anyone to anything if you dig deep enough and have a predetermined outcome you're looking for.


It's not my place to judge but I'm happy to state I don't trust any of them. I don't trust the Royals. I don't trust 'The Firm', I don't trust Meghan and I don't trust Oprah.

I also don't believe every word Daniel Natal says should be taken as Gospel. I love listening to his segments but I see fallacies in his work as well (such as a recent one regarding bartering and money, which was described far too simplistically to be taken seriously; and I hate scenarios like that because I can't interject and put my two cents in to allow the conversation to go further).


So the Meghan school connection, while it's not raw evidence as such, it is just interesting coincidence. Similar to how most if not all of our Australian political 'leaders' attend schools connected to Freemasons, though I think their connection is much more telling than Meghan's.

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 05:22

I am neither astounded nor very sceptical. If one is not to be "preselected" to represent a political party without appropriate predispositions it seems very likely that the "qualifications" for further up the food chain are even more demanding.


I am still very, very suspicious that the "Markle debacle" is an orchestrated, scripted diversion/distraction to hide or eclipse other "bothers" for the Monarchical mascot for the "chosen" and their "new order".

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
16 Mar '21 05:22

I agree it's interesting but not sure if relevant. The story about the nuns was harrowing. As for Piers Morgan, he jumped ship in a theatrical way. Straight into another job. His behaviour was amusing.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
22 Mar '21 04:20

Geoff, you have incorrectly summarised my postion on this issue. I do believe that the assassination of Princess Diana is relevant, but I also stated the following:


"Let's put aside the more extreme allegations of "murder most foul" for a moment and just look at the prima facie evidence they present. It is not all about racism. It is about bullying and intimidation, and is very similar to the things that Princess Diana said.


Their testimony is that they were bullied into quitting, and then stripped of all their royal titles, money and protection. It's pretty nasty stuff, regardless of whatever privilege these people enjoyed in their previous life.


I almost feel that Martyn Iles watched a completely different interview to the one I saw. The interview I saw showed people who were describing an abusive relationship."


I'm actually very disappointed to see that you have gone down the groupthink rabbit hole with Martin Iles and all the right-wingers on this topic. You have no evidence at all to back up your knee jerk assertions.


I will agree that my own speculations about whether H&M know that Diana was murdered by "the Firm" as they call them, are conspiratorial and unproven.


I don't rely on these speculations to make my argument however. There is ample evidence that what we see here is an abusive relationship, and it is not even primarily about racism. It is about power. I'm amazed that you are so unwilling to even look at that angle.


This issue has led me to be increasingly distrustful of people who call themselves "conservative". I am distrustful of these people in the same way I am distrustful of people who label themselves as "left-wing" or "progressive". Both of these groups engage to alarming degree in identity politics. Neither group is capable of rising above their tribal affiliations. Both groups betray truth at a fundamental level, which is what I believe you are doing Geoff when you say that "Meghan's victim narrative is pathetic". You have no factual basis at all to make that statement, unless, by "pathetic" you mean "inducing pathos - having a capacity to move one to compassionate pity" - which is the original meaning of the word. I think however that your usage of the word "pathetic" is more in line with the modern popular meaning "pitifully inferior or inadequate, absurd, laughable".


You and Isle simply have no basis for making those assertions. It is just your bald assumption, devoid of evidence other than your prejudice against this person because she represents a political group that you dislike. In other words Geoff, you are engaging in identity politics.


Good luck with that.

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O
Oldavid
22 Mar '21 04:59

Come now, Winston, the whole blardy media/politics is a theatre in which the only supposed "good guys" are only "good" because they claim to be persecuted by some bogeyman that is perceived to be "inconvenient" to a "great plan".

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
22 Mar '21 05:14

All the world’s a stage and we are but players.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
6 Apr '21 13:25

This is another test comment.

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
6 Apr '21 13:36

You're a liar. You're just trying to bump the comment numbers up as high as possible so you can bask in the glory of having the largest comments thread of all, with great difficulty for anybody ever beating it (I think the previous record was about 36?).


Oh, and also, whatever you've done, it's fixed the problem ;) hahaha

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
6 Apr '21 14:51

Yes, you have exposed my dastardly plan. Mwahahaha.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
15 Mar '21 06:35

You guys really should watch the documentary made by Dodi Fayed's father that presents very solid and utterly damning evidence that the royal family was implicated in the death of Diana, Princess of Wales.


Once you absorb this information you will no longer be inclined to talk about how Harry should honor his father or grandparents. You will also come to the conclusion tha the public interview with Oprah was done as a form of protection. It is much less likely that they will exact deadly revenge on the runaways now that this info has been shared.


Right wing media like Sky News will NEVER cover this because they are also into game of propping up and protecting those at the top of the power pyramid.


The title of the doco is "Unlawful Killing".

O
Oldavid
15 Mar '21 07:27

Don't be daft, Winston. You're not "honouring" anything but crookedry by providing cover for criminals even if they are rellys.


But I am deeply suspicious that touted "Markle debacle" is nothing more than a thick smokescreen to distract attention from other more bothersome accusations against this particular august institution.

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
15 Mar '21 07:57

Should Harry honour his Mother?...


The thing for me is, I haven't been given sufficient information/evidence to have trust in ANY of the Royal Family. Harry happens to be one of them.

If Harry somehow proves himself, then I'm happy to change my mind.


Based on the points I listed in my much longer comment, I have been given information/evidence to have trust in the practice of honouring thy Father and thy Mother (when all other laws are being upheld).

If Harry has chosen not to honour his Father and other family members BECAUSE they have broken multiple other laws, then he has strong justification for not following through with the honour rule himself. But right now, he has not brought forward anything substantial to show they are criminals, so his justification is not there.

Having prejudice (so called Racism) is not a crime, if no activity of harm against another takes place. If the harm has taken place, then Harry, please show us. Please expose the truth, if that is your genuine goal.

This means, if others have been penalised or held down, had their freedoms restricted because of the colour of their skin in the past, then expose it. Give us examples. Show the world who they have harmed. Saying that they're being oppressors towards you and only you is a little rich...

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
15 Mar '21 08:16

Just to be clear as well, I'm not in any way defending the Royal Family.

The only one I'm defending here is Martin and his justified loyalty to the commandments.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
15 Mar '21 08:49

After the assassination of JFK in 1963, Kennedy's wife Jackie cut ties with the United States and married the Greek tycoon Aristotle Onassis. She never once mentioned any public concerns about the official narrative about what happened to her husband. She did however engage the services of private investigators in order to discover what really happened. High profile people are not free to speak out about what they know about high crimes and misdemeanors. The risks for them and their families are very serious.


The same would apply to Harry and Meghan. Harry looks like a thoughtful person. I suspect that he knows what happened to his mother. I don't vilify him for not speaking out about it.


From watching the interview I don't get the impression that there was any intention to embarass the royal family or harm them. Quite the contrary, it appears that H&M were both being bullied, and that this reached an intolerable point when Meghan started to entertain thoughts of suicide.


Let's put aside the more extreme allegations of "murder most foul" for a moment and just look at the prima facie evidence they present. It is not all about racism. It is about bullying and intimidation, and is very similar to the things that Princess Diana said.


Their testimony is that they were bullied into quitting, and then stripped of all their royal titles, money and protection. It's pretty nasty stuff, regardless of whatever privilege these people enjoyed in their previous life.


I almost feel that Martyn Iles watched a completely different interview to the one I saw. The interview I saw showed people who were describing an abusive relationship. Such things are not uncommon in this world. You can choose to disbelieve them of course, that is what Piers Morgan did, with dramatic flair, walking out of the studio and quitting his job (only to jump straight into a new job with Fox).


Martyn Iles doesn't outright say he disbelieves them, he just quotes Biblical law. Has he even considered the points I raised here? I don't get that impression. It's disappointing, but his call. I just won't look to him for great insight so much in the future.


I think that's the last I will say about this topic, or I will just end up repeating myself.

O
Oldavid
15 Mar '21 09:14

Your divine Majesty, Mr Leni. Of course Mr Red Hairy should honour his mother.


Do you mean to imply that anyone, anywhere, is automatically guilty (by media or "popular" acclaim) of an unforgivable indiscretion according to some undefined precept unless they can prove themselves innocent of all arbitrary accusations? Hmm. The barely post pubescent intelligentsia don't inspire much confidence.


Just about all of these "curly" questions have been addressed and thought through way more than a thousand years ago.

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O
Oldavid
15 Mar '21 09:34

Orrite, Mr Smithstein, Martyn quotes "Biblical" precepts and you assume "Naturalistic" dogma. I expect to be self righteously barred from here for challenging the irrational "norms" of fashionable orthodoxy.


Just by-the-way, secular "orthodoxy" is the required premise that Nothing can, and does, turn itself into Everything.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
15 Mar '21 10:59

I don't go along along with either secular or religious orthodoxy. You can call me a Gnostic, perhaps...

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
16 Mar '21 02:52

I honestly don't know where you draw your conclusions from David.

Please, if you're going to make assumptions about my intent/beliefs, please copy and paste the words I've used and then explain how you have come to the conclusions you've come to otherwise there is no way I foresee of meeting in the middle (or, something I am completely open to, convincing me your position is accurate).

How, for example, have I said anyone, anywhere is automatically guilty. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. So I'd love to rectify my dialogue to prevent this misrepresentation from taking place. But unless you explain it to me, I'll never understand what I've said incorrectly or how I've said it.

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 03:55

Gnosticism is that damned ephemeral Hydra that means anything at all that cannot be grounded in reality and consistent, coherent reasoning.


When I was at university there was a bit of a fad going around in some "enlightenment" circles that basically said that "personal "truth"" was achieved by just "grocking" onto an idea and that observation and reason were pretty much a waste of time; getting bogged down in a reality that didn't matter in the great scheme of things.


Rene Guenon (and a variety others of similar mind) said that by engaging in various ancient occult mystical practices one could achieve a "primordial wisdom" that was so far above pedestrian science that it didn't need any kind of rational justification.


Other practitioners of these magical arts had/have different names for this kind of esoterica. Some of the better known (just off the top of my head) are the likes of Blavatsky, Crowley, Gardner, Coomeraswamy, Hubbard, Schoen......

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 04:09

Saul Alinsky had a rhetorical method for dealing with objections to his culture destruction "radicals".


It was to bog any discussion of principles in minutiae and a barrage of arbitrary accusations.


Did my general comment about "trial by media" and an implied assumption of guilt touch a nerve?

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
15 Mar '21 05:09

Just want to put this at the start as well (it's repeated at the end):

Children are being conditioned to worship the State and be indoctrinated by the "greater good, collective" State. Whilst parents are being taught to believe that the children belong to the "collective", not to the parents.


Sorry Winston, I have to disagree with you to a degree...

Whilst your proposition of the more "in with the times" version I can completely agree with, what we need to recognise is the reasons why the updated version is needed. And I suspect we'll find it's because the other rules have not been followed.


Let me first state - I do not believe there is a homo-sapien in the sky whom is all powerful, all knowing, etc. So when I hear the word/name 'God', to me I can accept most notions of God presented without it requiring that man/woman type image be necessary. I'm about to talk about the notion of God in fact being Mathematics or Physics, etc, however I am not trying to state that this is the 100% truth, for I am open to discussion and other theories. By presenting what I'm about to present, I hope it seems clear that I have no issues with the majority, if not all of the historical propositions about 'God' and how they may relate to nature/our existence as opposed to a man in the sky.


Let's look at the 10 commandments:

1 - “I am the Lord your God; You shall have no other gods before Me."

2 - “You shall not make Idols."


The above two laws I feel interrelate, for having false idols brings about the misdirected beliefs to treat the idols like another God.

If God exists, then God is the creator as well as that which sustains life. Let's suppose God = Science (Maths/Physics/Biology). Is it not true that in this day and age countless high proportions of civilisations are now worshiping what they believe to be science; "science" which is actually political science or social science, etc. A.k.a. not science at all. False science = false god. People are worshiping false science/gods in this very sense and creating the false idols whom propagate the false god/science, such as your Anthony Fauci's and Bill Gates' of the world.


3 - “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain"

What happens to men and women, including scientists, epidemiologists, doctors, nurses, etc, who speak the truth about Covid and who speak the truth about vaccines? They are labelled Conspiracy theorists among other names. These individuals are staying true to the Truth of the Science. Following this path (in keeping with the notion that God = Science) these men and women are merely translating the true words of God, so any institution or politician, etc who refers to these men and women as 'conspiracy theorists' are effectively taking the Lords (science) name in vain.


4 - “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Let's face it - we all know the seventh day has been destroyed a long time. Much work takes place on the seventh day. I don't see an issue with the seventh day being a different day of the week for each individual but there are still plenty who work seven days per week, for that is the means to "get ahead" and become monetarily wealthier than your peers.


5 - “Honor your father and your mother.

No need to touch on this just yet since this is the topic of discussion.


6 - “You shall not murder.

Murder takes place in mass these days.


7 - “You shall not commit adultery.

Adultery has been encouraged in mass.


8 - “You shall not steal.

Our governments which we tolerate, meaning we consent to them, are stealing all day every day and they are meant to represent us.


9 - “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Snitches are encouraged to dob in their neighbours by our Fascists leaders these days.


10 - “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I think I'm already done, I'm not going to dive into this one (I need to get back to work).


So then, this brings us to the crux of the problem where we the men and women alive today have issues with the "honour thy father and thy mother" law...

For what if your Mother and Father are worshipers of Bill Gates, does this mean you still need to honour them?...

What if they call you a Conspiracy Theorist?

What if they go to work on the seventh day or put you to work instead of spending quality family time together?

What if they are involved in murder and/or theft?

Of course, under these circumstances there seems no reason to honour them.

But how do we get to this situation? We only get here because the other laws are not being followed. If all other laws were being followed, there would be absolutely no reason why the simplicity of "honour thy mother and thy father" would not be sufficient.

Therefore, is the solution to alter one of the laws to suit a sick society that doesn't follow the other laws? Or is the solution actually to think more deeply about the laws and ensure we follow them all, for when they are all followed, our species will flourish.


So as it relates to Harry and Meghan and Martin's comments. Are his comments harsh? Yes. But are the commandment laws wrong? No.

Should Harry honour his parents and family if they have committed serious sin in mass? Probably not.

But does he need to take it to the world stage and make it a grand affair? No.


What concerns me the most is how right now (as in has been happening in the last decade or so and continues to be pushed particularly at the moment) is this idea that children should fight against their "crazy" parents who believe the LGBT bullshit is a scam for example. Or their crazy parents who don't believe in Global Warming or don't believe in eating 3D printed meat. Children are being conditioned to worship the State and be indoctrinated by the "greater good, collective" State. Whilst parents are being taught to believe that the children belong to the "collective", not to the parents.

And this whole Royal Family grand scale event shows children that no matter how powerful your parents are, you are encouraged to defy them and expose them / dob them in to the authorities.

O
Oldavid
15 Mar '21 07:15

'Strooth! Leni! Talk about making idols! Mathematics, physics etc. don't exist as some "Astral being" divorced and separate from our reality. There is no maths, physics, chemistry, etc. except that there is some physical or metaphysical reality that contains them.


Stay tuned, cobber, meanwhile consider that "a thing (like a system) cannot cause itself to exist out of nothing". Metaphysical "stuff", like order, does not exist except where there are "things" (even metaphysical concepts, as in mathematics) to be ordered.

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
15 Mar '21 08:00

I don't know what you're trying to say. Are you saying that Physics does not exist out of nothing but that God created Physics?

Or are you saying nothing exists at all?


Everything as far as we know has a precursor up until the point of Physics or Mathematics.

What is your precursor to these?

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 03:11

I'll try to keep it simple, Leni, one thing at a time.


Physics. For example: The well known, easily demonstrated, "Laws of Motion" are entirely meaningless, don't even exist in the absence of bodies moving or to be moved. The Laws don't cause motion they only describe what happens.

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
16 Mar '21 03:33

So you're prescribing to the idea that if you hold a pen out in front of you and let go of it, there is no law of gravity which makes it descend to the floor, but rather just that describing the descent from your hand to the floor is just a description which for some reason conveniently is always labelled gravity description, despite it repeatedly happening every single time the action is performed.

If this is true, do you suggest the word 'law' be removed from existence, since it's a word describing something which doesn't exist at all?

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 04:59

No, Leni. Physical Laws are not inventions that make things happen they simply describe what does happen.


Let's recapitulate a most general form of "the scientific method".

Step 1; Observation. something is seen to happen.

2; Question. Why is this so?

3; Hypothesis. Suggested possibilities to be tested for conformity to known principles and experiment.

4; Theory. An hypothesis that passes testing is deemed to be a possible, or even likely, explanation for the observed phenomenon.

5; Law. If it can be proved that there are no, and can be no, exceptions to the theory then it is accepted as a "law" of physics, chemistry, etc.


The "law" doesn't make it happen; it is simply a statement that "this is what does/always will happen" in the prescribed instance.

Show 6 more replies
TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
16 Mar '21 05:28

So let's take this back a notch since this all came about from a discussion regarding whether Martin Iles had justification in his approach (at least that's what I was discussing).

What is your proposition regarding God?

Your proposition regarding Physics?

Your proposition regarding Laws?

And how they interconnect (or how they don't)?


And your responses, how do they then support or oppose Martin's position?

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 05:38

Leni, unless you are engaging in rhetorical diversionary tactics your reading and comprehension skills need some improvement.

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
16 Mar '21 07:52

Do you use the same dialogue when speaking to a 5 year old?

And do they then comprehend exactly what you want them to comprehend?

Assume my intellect is vastly lower than yours. I don't mind, I won't be offended.

Now engage with me in a manner so as to achieve the result of improving my knowledge.

If you aren't capable of doing that, then you must surely find a recurring issue when trying to communicate your ideas to various men and women. I'm hoping you'll consider finding a solution to this issue.

O
Oldavid
16 Mar '21 08:49

What's your problem, Leni?

TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
17 Mar '21 01:28

I don't have a problem.

You stated my reading and comprehension skills may need some improvement.

I am accepting the notion may be correct when conversing with yourself. I'm concerned you may encounter this same problem with others or that others are not even attempting to converse with you (at least that's what I think I saw on Slack). This is a credit to your knowledge/intellect. But in terms of social success / ability to persuade others of your view, it doesn't appear to me to be working for you. So I am attempting to offer a solution because whilst it may benefit myself and myself alone to raise to your level, it would be of greater benefit to our entire society if you could interact more effectively with a wider audience and persuade them of their shortcomings.

O
Oldavid
5 Apr '21 06:20

My apologies, Leni. I do recall having seen this comment and I did intend to reply but my intention got lost in a confusion of other things.


I am not politic. My personality is not at all amenable to pissing in pockets, kissing babies and all that. You are perfectly welcome to make any improvements to the expression of the disagreeableness of my "personality defects" that you see fit.

O
Oldavid
14 Mar '21 07:40

Winston, I cannot conceive an intellect more stunted than one who thinks he is smarter than God, i.e. one who thinks he is the supreme authority who can determine reality, truth, virtue etc. by simply referring to his own ephemeral (not "rigid" or consistent) pleasure and convenience. I liken it to the omniscience of one with his head stuck up his own r-sole. I guess that you would be quite enraptured by the 'Masonic slogan of the French Revolution: "each man will be his own priest, his own king and his own god".


Now, I will contend that "rules and authority are inherently good" and as such are of the fabric of the nature and purpose of human life and society. However, like other goods that are subject to the good of free will they are liable to perversion by out of control egos that demand "to be as gods "knowing" (deciding) good and evil".


I have described 'Masonry as "an organised bunch of idiots trying to pretend that they're smarter than God" and others, subscribing to a "Jewish" occultism, have described 'Masonry as "introductory Kabbalah for Goyim".

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
14 Mar '21 09:06

If you accept the words printed in the Bible as your rule book for life then you are just accepting words written by men who had the fantastic arrogance, audacity and hubris to assert that these words were dictated by God. What a swindle!

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
14 Mar '21 09:16

If you agree with the words as printed for rational reasons which you can understand and explicate using your own intellect, then it's a different proposition. But how can you rationally support such a hollow dictum as "honor thy mother and father"? It is insufficient and needs all kids of qualifiers to make it intellectually acceptable. If your father were a murderer or child rapist, for example, how would "honor" him?


I totally understand that in the brutal world of the Old Testament there was no expectation of what we would call justice or human rights. Rules were brutal and served to regulate society. Concept of "fairness" and "dignity" had little currency back then, and maybe that was the best they could do in that era.


If I were to have the arrogance and hubris to rewrite the Bible I would rephrase it to something like:


"Give your parents the basic respect due to all human beings, and honor them when and if they deserve it, but not simply because they exist."

O
Oldavid
14 Mar '21 09:44

I'm glad that I made the above comment before I had viewed the vid you linked to or I might have been more scathing about your silly appraisal.


What authority, "fantastic arrogance, audacity and hubris" do you claim to exalt yourself to supreme arbiter of the nature and purpose of reality?


In any "philosophical" discussion you've gotta start from commonsense premises. The main one of which that is particularly pertinent to this "discussion" is the simple statement that: "a thing that does not exist cannot cause itself to exist". It is such a bother to diabolical narcissists that they simply evade the issue altogether and just assume that Nothing is relentlessly turning itself into Everything with no Cause, observable Mechanism, or Purpose in contradiction to all the known and easily demonstrable physical laws we can see always and everywhere.

O
Oldavid
14 Mar '21 10:03

Honour your father and mother is, appropriately, the very first Commandment after our obligations to God and it reinforces the obvious fact that we cannot create ourselves physically or metaphysically. We are a product of our parents AND the familial/social environment right up to and including father Nation and mother Culture.


Honouring them is not a servile, silly sycophancy but an earnest desire for their good.

O
Oldavid
5 Apr '21 06:36

Let's get down to basics, Geoff.


The only alternative to an omnipotent creator is the impossible assertion that Nothing is relentlessly turning itself into Everything for no purpose.


To propose that an aimless "survival of the fittest" is more magnanimous and less cruel than a purposeful Creation in which free willed creatures may repudiate their purpose and be eliminated by various agents is more than a bit daft.

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TheRevolutiLeni
TheRevolutiLeni
6 Apr '21 12:13

Geoff said

"This is a smart move because do you know their is no objective basis for moral judgements? So, the only way one can be compelled to obey moral precepts is through faith in an authority. So, what is your authority for your moral values?"


I'm not opposing any idea of God and I have no issue with faith, in fact if done in a loving manner, I can only see right to encourage faith. Look at me as the young you right now though questioning everything which is presented ;)

Scientific experiment 1 - People in community one tell the truth and nothing but the truth. Result, they can rely on what each other says. They can have faith in the words of one and other. The benefit of this is apparent when entering into tasks and agreements with one and other regarding trade or regarding achieving a common community goal.

People in community two do not do this. They lie to each other. Whether every word is a lie or only 2% is a lie, it does not matter, for what this brings is a loss of confidence in whether the truth is being told or not. This loss of confidence destroys or greatly hinders the proficiency / effectiveness of using communication to achieve goals.

Given these two scenarios, it is wise to adopt the first scenario. If we value communication or if we value the wisdom of understanding the benefit of communication then we could allocate telling the truth as that of a code of morality. No faith in God is required here.

The same experiments can be done regarding theft and physical harm at the very least.

O
Oldavid
7 Apr '21 03:22

A fair observation, Leni. As I said elsewhere, some of what we might call "moral law" can be deduced by observation and reason... buy how come it doesn't work as reliably as, say, gravity.


The answer is in "what is good and evil?" I think it's a question that should be tackled in easy stages because the conclusion is deeply offensive to the little egomaniac we all have in us if it is not under control. The little egomaniac that tends toward the big egomaniac that says: think, say, "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" (Aleister Crowley).


Presently I am persecuted with some domestic responsibilities so I"ll have to come back to it later.

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